26 May 2007

KingCast asks the unthinkable: What if there is no police video from the Franconia Notch shooting tragedy?

That certainly would explain why it hasn't been produced, when of course we see by this post -- containing a letter demanding its release to NH AG Kelly Ayotte -- that there is no ongoing criminal investigation and even the Supreme Court of Georgia hosted such a video on its own website.

Meanwhile, a comment from another post:
"AND DON"T EXPECT AN INVESTIGATION OF FLOYD OR THIS INCIDENT as it would need to be done by cops and even on the Local and Federal Level there is a bond between cops and you don't cross a line when a cop has been killed. There is no such thing as a corrupt or bad cop when they have been killed in the line of duty."

I don't disagree with that assessment, but perhaps Attorney Ayotte could prove us wrong.... again, as on prior occasion she buddied up with Jaffrey Chief Dunn and Prosecutor Bill Albrecht, who ended up being fired and hastily-resigning under an ethics investigation, as noted in para. 2 of the lead post.

24 comments:

N. B. Forrest said...

What if there is no police video from the Franconia Notch shooting tragedy?

Certainly a possibility. In fact has Franconia PD or anyone else for that matter ever said that there was video?

Can't speak for Francaonia, but few PDs have cameras in every one of their cruisers. Even if it exists, sometimes the video doesn't show the incident which may well have occurred off camera. Likewise the audio may or may not have anything of value on it.

However, if there is no video, all that does is raise the question of how Floyd was cleared of any wrong doing so quickly. It does nothing to validate the hearsay regarding Cpl. McKay's actions.

And yes, all things being equal I'll take the police's version of events, unsworn or not, over the 3rd and 4th hand accusations I've heard against the officer.

Much may be in dispute. What's not in dispute is that Kenney shot McKay four times in the back. While video could clear up a lot of questions about this incident, I can't imagine what it could possibly show that would justify that.

Christopher King said...

Ahhh, but wait a minute:

Much may be in dispute. What's not in dispute is that Kenney shot McKay four times in the back.

Were you there? Who says? What is the epistemological basis for your statement on that? Remember, as a former reporter, I've uncovered more untruths about stories than you can possibly believe.

And my point, again has never been to exonerate Liko Kenney for his actions, but to look deeper into what really happened, such as

1. The possibility that officer McKay may have acted with unreasonable force prior to Mr. Kenney using unreasonable force. Officer McKay's actions don't inherently become justifiable because Mr. Kenney killed him.

2. The alleged "chase" that allegedly required Officer McKay to run Mr. Kenney off the road. I cannot divulge from whom I glean my information, but I have heard that Mr. Kenney pulled over and parked prior to having his car rammed 50 feet back by Officer McKay.

The truth or lack thereof of those assertions lies in the computer management system of McKays police car, and we know that exists and it's simple forensic science.

You haven't addressed that yet.

-c

Christopher King said...

Oh, yeah:

The reason why I say it's "the unthinkable" isn't because they don't have video in the cruisers..... if they didn't NH AG Kelly Ayotte and the local police guy (I forget his name) prolly would have said as much by now.

The reason I say it's "the unthinkable" is the possibility that Officer McKay didn't turn it on for some reason.

We will all have to wait and see what happens, but you better believe something is going to happen.

Namaste.

N. B. Forrest said...

Were you there?

No I wasn't and I don't believe you were either.

Who says?

The NH Medical Examiner and the NH Attorney General for starters. Is there any credible person saying that Kenney didn't shoot McKay four times in the back as the reports all indicate?

... I have heard that Mr. Kenney pulled over and parked prior to having his car rammed 50 feet back by Officer McKay.

If and when this is reported 1st hand it will be worth listening to. Until then it's just more hearsay.

The truth or lack thereof of those assertions lies in the computer management system of McKays police car, and we know that exists and it's simple forensic science.

The car's computer information may or may not be of any value at all. As I recall the from the original reports, there was no allegation of a high speed pursuit, just that Kenney fled after the initial stop and continued on for some distance. All the computer is going to show is raw information, speed, braking etc. If this was a "low speed" pursuit the data won't be helpful to support either side of this arguement.

The reason I say it's "the unthinkable" is the possibility that Officer McKay didn't turn it on for some reason.

Again I can't speak for Franconia PD but generally this isn't an issue. As a rule cruiser videos are set up to record whenever the car's emergency lights are turned on, when the car reaches a certain speed, or when the officer turns them on. If Cpl. McKay's lights were on, the video system would have been recording.

Furthermore Officers can't go back and erase what's been recorded. The cassettes are downloaded into a server at the PD. Copies of incidents can be burned onto DVDs for evidence but what's on the server stays on the server.

N. B. Forrest said...

"AND DON'T EXPECT AN INVESTIGATION OF FLOYD OR THIS INCIDENT as it would need to be done by cops and even on the Local and Federal Level there is a bond between cops and you don't cross a line when a cop has been killed. There is no such thing as a corrupt or bad cop when they have been killed in the line of duty."

I don't disagree with that assessment


(And yes, I know the original comment was someone else's. Your comment was that you don't disagree.)

So basically any investigation that would conclude that Cpl. McKay acted correctly is automatically suspect, right? After all, you apparently agree that law enforcement can't be trusted to do an honest investigation when it involves cop killed in the line of duty.

In other words McKay is damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If an investigation would reveal wrong doing on his part, all we'll hear is "I told you so". If an investigation clears him, we'll hear "Well what did you expect, untrustworthy cops were just covering for one of their own."

Christopher King said...

What I'm saying is that the proof is in the car's computer and the video; it's not my fault the state shut down the criminal investigation so fast, and that such a shut down draws suspicion to the entire process.

And again, you can see a picture of me slamming this very Attorney General on hearsay crap that she was trying to argue against me brought by a stupid hater cop and his stupid hater prosecutor even after I warned her that they were stupid haters and I was right:

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2007/05/kingcast-reveals-letter-to-nh-ag-kelly.html

And not only was I right, so was Aaron Deboisbriand, shutting down not one but two cases brought by that same stupid, hater cop who was supported by the same Attorney General:

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2006/08/aaron-deboisbriand-jury-acquitted-in.html

Jury out less than an hour.

Dig?

Christopher King said...

And as for whether or not Officer McKay was shot in the back, it still doesn't address whether he used unreasonable force before Mr. Kenney used unreasonable force.

As to the cruiser's black box, media reported that McKay had to run Mr. Kenney off the road. The black box could substaniate or disqualify that.

And as to the statements, I told you before they are definitely coming, and so should the video and computer information.

Namaste.

Christopher King said...

And again, if I hated all cops I never would have been an AAG for 4 years, nor would I have represented a couple of them in matters related to their conduct at work.

One of my clients sat side-chair with me at Michael Isreal's bogus resisting arrest case when I whipped Prosecutor Sam Boorst's ass in Hamilton before they cut us the largest non-critical injury police case check that town had issued to date in the Civil Action.

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2006/02/1998-we-got-60k-for-michael.html

So I dunno. For some crazy reason I tend to believe I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Namaste.

N. B. Forrest said...

OK, you raised the possibility that there might not be any video. I addressed that as well as explained how cruiser video is generally set up, and how McKay's video (if he did in fact have one) would likely have been recording.

I also addressed what value the information on the cruiser's computer may or may not have. Again, if this all happened at low speeds, the computer data won't be able to clear up very much.

What on the other hand, you've failed to address is my concern that McKay is damned if he did, damned if he didn't. You've agreed with the assumption that an impartial investigation won't be done regardless of what law enforcement agency might conduct it. Given that, any investigation concluding that McKay acted properly will be dismissed out-of-hand as cops covering for another cop.

You're past courtroom victories aren't the issue here. The only thing at issue is what did or did not happen on the night of May 11th.

If the video exists and can be legally released at this point then I would support that. Likewise I'd support the release of the cruiser's computer information.

What I expect though is that the results of an investigation be accepted. I said before, let the chips fall where they may. If McKay acted improperly then say so. BUT if the investigation shows his action were within the law, then accept that too.

Finally, I've seen investigations, both internal and from external agencies, go against cops. I was working in Detroit when Detectives Larry Budzyn and Walter Nevers were sent to prison (in verdicts that were later overturned) for murder, purely because their incident came so close on the heels of the Rodney King verdict and subsequent riots in LA. They were sacrificial lambs, plain and simple, served up to keep Detroit from being burned to the ground.

You've called me "dickweed", you've called me "bubba" but the most insulting thing so far is the insinuation that law enforcement is incapable of conducting a proper, impartial investigation.

Christopher King said...

Well from the "illustrious former attorney" to you, Forrest:

I didn't say law enforcement was incapable of conducting a full and fair investigation, only that often they... don't. Note that I didn't agree with the writer 100 per cent, and further note that you again failed to answer the question of why would a cop hater willingly be an AAG for 4 years and represent police in private practice, well enough so that one of them stood as expert witness in a police abuse case for no charge.

As such, my past victories involving bad cops sure as hell are instructive, because I've never been wrong when I went after a cop situation. Not once -- including the tussles with Chief Dunn and NH AG Kelly Ayotte.

I pick my police battles carefully, as I should given my experiences representing police officers and working for the AG's office.

**********

And did you know that in Chicago the police could tune your black ass up real good and get away with it?

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2006/07/npr-and-kingcast-report-in-chicago.html

Or that Jaffrey Chief Dunn and his force already had a reputation for going after minorities before NH AG Ayotte stood with him against me?

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2005/12/dunn-fails-to-make-blacks-feel-safe.html

....according to an elder, well-respected black businessman who called a damn meeting about it.

Just the facts.

Ciao,

-c

Christopher King said...

Also:

I also addressed what value the information on the cruiser's computer may or may not have. Again, if this all happened at low speeds, the computer data won't be able to clear up very much.

Wrong answer. They can determine pitch, yaw, acceleration, all of that. And remember, one of the issues involved is what use of force was reasonable for Officer McKay to use. If we see through the computer that he slowed and stopped as Liko Kenney pulled over and stopped, then made a u-turn and started ramming his car, would that information not be helpful?

Remember (or let me tell you) a law school buddy of mine, Mark Gardner, won a laser/lidar case and you can find it in Car & Driver if you look hard enough. I've used that case in my work as well, so don't even start to get into it with me about cars, I know my shit about that, too:

Click on "Rocket 88:"

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2007/05/kingcast-whip-of-day-2002-honda-cbr.html

Namaste.

Christopher King said...

And, oh my gosh, Forrest, did you even read the letter to Attorney Ayotte? I agree with her on several things she has done or is doing.

Don't I have the right to disagree with some of it, or do I have to accept everything the state says?

And if I don't accept it, does that make me less of a citizen?

I asked you before, do you consider people who speak out against the war in Iraq less patriotic than those who favor the war in Iraq.

I would like your answer to that question now, please.

[note: this is the part when Bugs Bunny would turn to the camera for a little soliloquy, which is only appropriate because Dunn/Ayotte's case against me was a cartoon, watch and see]:

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2006/04/this-naacp-case-is-still-cartoon.html

I got the last laugh.

N. B. Forrest said...

Throw up as much smoke as you like. This isn't about any other cases and it's not about Iraq.

I would like your answer to that question now, please.

You expect answers but don't offer any in return. Again you've ignored my point that Cpl. McKay is "damned if he did, damned if he didn't". You'll ignore any investigation that exonerates him of wrong doing because you've already decided what the "truth" is. You'll dismiss anything else as a coverup by the "thin blue line" protecting one of their own.

I got the last laugh.

Yeah, sure you did. You go on and believe that along with the rest of your fantasies.

I don't pretend to be the smartest guy on the planet but I'm smart enough to know when I'm wasting my time. I grew up on a farm and farming taught me a thing or two about life in general. One lesson from my Grandfather sticks in my mind. It was years later before I realized what he meant when he told me, "Never try to teach a pig to dance. All you end up doing is wasting your time and annoying the pig."

Christopher King said...

Mr. Forrest:

This isn't about your grandpappy's aphorisms. Hell, my daddy

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2007/05/happy-cinco-de-mayo.html

......grew up in the country but I grew up in the city where he taught me to trust my abilities and my common sense, and I've not been wrong once about a cop case -- a fact you conveniently say is irrelevant.

This is about an administration that has shown itself to back bad law enforcement officers on prior occasion despite my warnings after my investigation revealed them to be bad.

And I will answer your question or concern about McKay. If he is cleared after we watch the video, fine. But if his actions constituted unlawful use of force, then his actions constituted unlawful use of force.

And if in fact the city has been purging complaints filed against him that implicate unlawful use of force then the city should be sued for that, and a Restraining Order prohibiting such conduct should be set in place.

Is that clear enough for you?

Now then what say you about people who have the unmitigated gall to argue against the war in Iraq, because our arguments largely centers on the amount of deference we afford authority.

Or did you somehow miss that?

Sincerely yours,

-Fred Astaire.

Anonymous said...

n.b.forest,

You sure are coming down hard on Chris for his comment on questioning believing cops, when you yourself said the exact opposite about believing any one other than the cops!

Who is full of hot air? You Dude!

Anonymous said...

Since the McKay/Kenney shotings, I have been around to a lot of forums. I've checked out some of the law enforcement ones too. I certainly hope that they are not an example for the majority of the police officers in this country.

I did expect to see them in staunch support of their own and wanted to hear their side and what it must be like for them on the streets. I was looking to be open to the other side.

What I didn't expect was to find the attitude that they are super humans and the average civilian is sub-human and that low-life's should be exterminated, erased from the earth. I was appalled at some of the comments.

N. B. Forrest said...

Mr. Anonymous,

Go back and re-read what I said about who I'd tend to believe:

"... all things being equal I'll take the police's version of events, unsworn or not, over the 3rd and 4th hand accusations I've heard against the officer.

I stand by that. The police reports at least have a name attached to them and I have no reason to doubt what they say. The allegations against Cpl. McKay on the other hand, are 3rd and 4th hand at best, often even farther removed from their original, anonymous source. If and when someone comes forward with some 1st hand knowledge of the incident, I'll give their story as much weight as I do the police reports. Until then, I'll consider these anonymous allegation suspect.

If that sounds like "hot air" to you, I can live with that too.

I didn't expect was to find the attitude that they are super humans and the average civilian is sub-human and that low-life's should be exterminated, erased from the earth...

I don't know what sites you visited or what posts you read, but I assure you that is NOT the general attitude of law enforcement towards the communities we serve.

I'd remind you that I could just as easily visit any number of blatantly anti-law enforcement websites (in fact i've got them bookmarked and check them from time to time) and come up with equally outrageous statements that all cops are corrupt, violent, low-lifes, to include suggested tactics in setting up police ambushes etc.

Anonymous said...

The passenger has and he is being discounted. Easy to say that you will be open when all we will get is the police version.

I am happy to hear that the majority of LE is not like the forums I found.

Anonymous said...

n.b.forrest,

The passenger was the only witness to the exchange from the moment they were pulled over. He gave a very unbiased recount of what occurred. What strikes me as rather odd is the fact that his statement was only worthy of acceptance as long as it was in keeping with what suited the state. If it wasn't then, it was dis-regarded as he was under the "influence of pepper spray".

You wonder why citizens question if they are being told the truth or not. What has happened with this case is sadly not uncommon and it seems to happen very frequently in small town scenarios.

The spin that has been put on this is what tears far deeper at the "fabric of our communities and state" as our Governor put it. Everyone wants to cover their politic a--s more than having the courage to stand and live in truth for the betterment of society.

It is downright disgusting to watch this be reduced to a super hero cop, a high school drop out punk and the brave ex-marine. Nothing could be further than the truth.

If the state is worried about it's reputation.....now is the time to worry and worry big. Not because it happened in the first place but because they have betrayed the state by creating a cover up instead of reaching out in truth, light and love to correct the problems not only in Franconia but most likely similar ones that are happening throughout the wonderful majestic state of New Hampshire.

How is one to maintain any sense of pride in being from this state when we recognize that there is corruption all around us and the very people we are to trust are the ones at the core of it.

Anonymous said...

Is it possible to get the AG to re-open a case? or is it like asking for the 9?11 Commission where they investigate themselves? Haha.......How can they actually close the records on McKay when it is pertinent that we know the information? How can Grafton County put out everything on Liko Kenney and hold everything on McKay? Is this really the America we live in? What a travesty!

Christopher King said...

It is downright disgusting to watch this be reduced to a super hero cop, a high school drop out punk and the brave ex-marine. Nothing could be further than the truth.

If the state is worried about it's reputation.....now is the time to worry and worry big. Not because it happened in the first place but because they have betrayed the state by creating a cover up instead of reaching out in truth, light and love to correct the problems not only in Franconia but most likely similar ones that are happening throughout the wonderful majestic state of New Hampshire.


Goddamn right. And you know what kills me about Forrest is that whatever Floyd said happened was taken as gospel truth, but his record is 100 times worse than Liko Kenney's -- including Floyd's threats to give cops a "third eye 'cos he's sittin' on his ruger!!!"

Yet Ayotte and co. give him a pass within 24-48 hours.

Un-fucking-believable.

Forrest says he believes in "the system" to work things out, but he doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that rational, political and legal dissent is indeed part of that system in America (at least ostensibly). I challenge the system as a former and current reporter (and member of the Fourth Estate).

One Officer Forrest eliminates people like me from being part of "the system," by ignoring the fact that I have smoked this very adminstration for supporting a bad cop despite my warnings to the contrary, he can downplay (or attempt to downplay) the content of my message.

I'm not fooled.

Namaste.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe this is about a super hero cop and a drop out and a marine. It is about a human being that had a job/career as a police officer, a high school drop out, who was convicted of assaulting Bruce by grabbing his testicles and squeezing, dropping a tree on his aunt's house, assaulting a cousin by grabbing him around his neck, illegally operating an OHRV, going around telling everyone who would listen that the next time he was stopped by Mckay he was going to kill him angel and a former marine who just happened to be driving by and witness a police officer being shot and then being run down and then run over again. He stepped up and faced an armed man without any weapong until he secured Officer McKay's weapon.

Christopher King said...

And of course the former marine who also grabbed the police by the testicals and told them he was gonna' give them a third eye with his ruger.

Come on now, let's put it all on the record, including what really happened that night.

We still have absolutely no proof that Mr. Kenney was reloading his weapon, do we.

Oh, wait. We've got Floyd's version, and he would have no reason to lie, of course. Other than to go to prison for murder, I guess.

THINK before you write, please.

-c

Anonymous said...

i believe you have proven the point of many posters here with your post below. We need say no more, my friend. You have shown your inability to see this in a clear whole picture and the state is intending to do the same.

Not happening this time. McKay's shoes have too much mud on them.




Anonymous said...

I don't believe this is about a super hero cop and a drop out and a marine. It is about a human being that had a job/career as a police officer, a high school drop out, who was convicted of assaulting Bruce by grabbing his testicles and squeezing, dropping a tree on his aunt's house, assaulting a cousin by grabbing him around his neck, illegally operating an OHRV, going around telling everyone who would listen that the next time he was stopped by Mckay he was going to kill him angel and a former marine who just happened to be driving by and witness a police officer being shot and then being run down and then run over again. He stepped up and faced an armed man without any weapong until he secured Officer McKay's weapon.